Re: You came to see a rock show, a big gigantic cock show...

posted by [identity profile] sashagoblin.livejournal.com at 11:31pm on 01/01/2010
I'mnot sure quite what you mean by 'rockism', i'll read and get back to you. But the authenticity thing - it's because i am, instnctively,moved by people expressing their emotions. That simple. hat's why i obsess about bandls like Pulp and Placebo who manage to emote and analyse simultaneously. And if what perfrmer/s express is a series of dance moves set to a track constructed by someone else, they're not doing that. Covering a song, often, they are, and often commenting on contemporary culture as well - the travis britney covers, f'rinstance, or even some of the amateur covers on youtube, feel real because there's obvious feeling there and enagement with the song, not simply an attempt to make money (this is particularly true in the case of amateur covers).

But as you say, it's not about theory, for me, it's about 'do i like this, does it speak to me?' and Gaga does, for reasons outlined above. And hell, she's been thinking about and creaig and writing in the genre she creates since she was about 14 - she cares passionately about it, and about those who supported her, and i respect that. And it's a positive relief in the gym when one of her videos comes on,becaue despite the endless parade of body types akin to hers, she uses her incredibly OTT styling combined with genuinely good - catchy, emotive, driving - songs to draw attention to the artificiality of such constructions, and i think that's very useful. (plus, she's not that thin!) She's obviously bright, engaged with what she does and her own representation, and enjoying it, and i enjoy that.

get me to read things. Yes! x
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Re: You came to see a rock show, a big gigantic cock show...

posted by [identity profile] friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com at 12:34am on 02/01/2010
I think it's a mistake to suggest that performing "series of dance moves set to a track constructed by someone else" is not about expressing emotion. I find dancing quite an emotional activity, myself.

Why is making money any less "real" a purpose for art? It's madness to suggest that music-making isn't inextricably part of the activity of mass capitalism. Hell, isn't it this PRECISE intersection which motivated the ultimate pop critique/capitulation in "Skank Bloc Bologna"? And that was 30+ years ago.

Oh yeah, speaking of which: sorry to recommend more Simon Reynolds but srsly, read read read 'Rip It Up And Start Again', which you can get in Fopp for about 3 quid now. You CANNOT go wrong, even though Reynolds is quite infuriating, with this as a primer for thinking about the intersection of music and politics in the morass of uncertainty after punk's swaggering Year Zero. This stuff is all in there.

Also, the work of Jon Savage is really instructional. 'England's Dreaming', his book about punk, is fucking MASSIVE. I read it when I was 17, I think, or maybe just 18, and it changed the way I thought about music. He's also written another huge tome about the construction of "the teenager" from the mid-19th to the mid-20th centuries, which I've only read a little of but it lovely.

You definitely, definitely need to read up around rockism, because this really is one of those huge defining conversations of the last couple of decades, and especially the last few years, and this conversation is all about the analytical techniques of rockism. It's hugely instructional in many ways, even if rockism, like essentialism, is something very few people will admit to. I was very pleased when a friend told me the word about 6 years ago, because I was overjoyed to have a simple explanation for the collection of Things Which Pissed Me Off about people's attitudes to music - and believe me, the goth scenes I've known have been chock-full of rockism.

I must get you and [livejournal.com profile] plumsbitch talking about this at some point but, as I said, I've very happy to rant about this more over tea and cake :-)
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Re: You came to see a rock show, a big gigantic cock show...

posted by [identity profile] sashagoblin.livejournal.com at 08:19am on 02/01/2010
:oP ys. i will STOP RAING AT YOU ONLIE ad we'll do it in person sometime, dammit.But ooh, daning as emoional? Dancing is one of the very few placess i go to get away from my thinking, feeling, aalytical self (and yes, they're all in a bundle for me, i don't feel without consciously leting it drive me, etc.) But it's likew rough sex and exercise - one of very, very few sanctuaries from emotion. My body runs it and i lose myself, and that's precious.

Just Dance, in fact. Hmm. ;oP xxx
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Re: You came to see a rock show, a big gigantic cock show...

posted by [identity profile] friend-of-tofu.livejournal.com at 10:47am on 02/01/2010
Hey, I'm not saying it's that way for everyone, but it definitely is for some people.

I am totes happy to discuss this online, but I think it's a lot harder to be nuanced and talk about all the various dimensions of STUFF. Do read the linked article, and prob the Morley one on the Wikipedia entry, they're a useful starting point.
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